Your opinion of this nursing home staff?

[John Curtiss]

A relative just moved to a nursing home that specializing in alzheimers
patients. He is still aware and alert in the mornings but has increasingly
worse dementia as the day goes on.

He moved in a month ago. His wife has been visiting every day and stays 2-6
hours a day, depending on his condition, mostly to help him with personal
chores that we think the staff should be doing. Such as dressing him,
changing his depens, finding his dentures, getting HIS clothes that were
mistakenly giving to other patients (yes, they are labeled but they are
always giving him someone else's clothes), taking him on walks around the
building for exercise, brushing his teeth (the staff doesn't do it well
enough).

They also are supposed be giving him his medicine at certain times and are
not hitting it close enough. For example, he is supposed to take one
medicine 1/2 hour before dinner. Dinner is at 4:30, but they have been
giving it to him at 4:30 -- even after several reminders that he needs it at
4pm.

None of these things, with the exception of medicine timing, is super
serious, but when you add them all together, it is giving his wife a full
time job doing what we think the staff should be doing.

Cost of his staying here is $3700/month (not including medicine, depens,
persona items.) Are we getting ripped off or are these things to be
expected?

JC

[John Curtiss]

PS -- I forgot to ask one more important thing....

From day one, the nursing home has been trying to get his wife to not visit
him so much so he will "get used to the place." I understand this kind of
thinking if it were a youngster going to camp. But with someone in this
advanced stage of dementia, I would have thought that they would be
encouraging family to visit. What's the experience of other folks? (By the
way, his doctor was surprised to hear that about the place.)

All this probably sounds like it's a dungeon, but the home is actually VERY
nice and ALL the staff are competent, pleasant and caring. That's not the
problem - the question is should the family turn them loose and give carte
blanche with everything or keep coming daily or so?

Thanks.

JC

Post by John Curtiss
A relative just moved to a nursing home that specializing in alzheimers
patients. He is still aware and alert in the mornings but has

increasingly

Post by John Curtiss
worse dementia as the day goes on.
He moved in a month ago. His wife has been visiting every day and stays 2-6
hours a day, depending on his condition, mostly to help him with personal
chores that we think the staff should be doing. Such as dressing him,
changing his depens, finding his dentures, getting HIS clothes that were
mistakenly giving to other patients (yes, they are labeled but they are
always giving him someone else's clothes), taking him on walks around the
building for exercise, brushing his teeth (the staff doesn't do it well
enough).
They also are supposed be giving him his medicine at certain times and are
not hitting it close enough. For example, he is supposed to take one
medicine 1/2 hour before dinner. Dinner is at 4:30, but they have been
giving it to him at 4:30 -- even after several reminders that he needs it at
4pm.
None of these things, with the exception of medicine timing, is super
serious, but when you add them all together, it is giving his wife a full
time job doing what we think the staff should be doing.
Cost of his staying here is $3700/month (not including medicine, depens,
persona items.) Are we getting ripped off or are these things to be
expected?
JC

[hlmw]

Post by John Curtiss
PS -- I forgot to ask one more important thing....
From day one, the nursing home has been trying to get his wife to not visit
him so much so he will "get used to the place." I understand this kind of
thinking if it were a youngster going to camp. But with someone in this
advanced stage of dementia, I would have thought that they would be
encouraging family to visit. What's the experience of other folks? (By the
way, his doctor was surprised to hear that about the place.)
All this probably sounds like it's a dungeon, but the home is actually VERY
nice and ALL the staff are competent, pleasant and caring. That's not the
problem - the question is should the family turn them loose and give carte
blanche with everything or keep coming daily or so?
Thanks.
JC

Post by John Curtiss
A relative just moved to a nursing home that specializing in alzheimers
patients. He is still aware and alert in the mornings but has

increasingly

Post by John Curtiss
worse dementia as the day goes on.
He moved in a month ago. His wife has been visiting every day and stays

2-6

Post by John Curtiss
hours a day, depending on his condition, mostly to help him with personal
chores that we think the staff should be doing. Such as dressing him,
changing his depens, finding his dentures, getting HIS clothes that were
mistakenly giving to other patients (yes, they are labeled but they are
always giving him someone else's clothes), taking him on walks around the
building for exercise, brushing his teeth (the staff doesn't do it well
enough).
They also are supposed be giving him his medicine at certain times and are
not hitting it close enough. For example, he is supposed to take one
medicine 1/2 hour before dinner. Dinner is at 4:30, but they have been
giving it to him at 4:30 -- even after several reminders that he needs it

at

Post by John Curtiss
4pm.
None of these things, with the exception of medicine timing, is super
serious, but when you add them all together, it is giving his wife a full
time job doing what we think the staff should be doing.
Cost of his staying here is $3700/month (not including medicine, depens,
persona items.) Are we getting ripped off or are these things to be
expected?
JC

Don't know about this place, but with a relative in a similar situation,
if we stop attending, she goes without her dentures, never gets her
glasses put on and lies in bed for most of the day instead of being got
up and put in a wheel chair for a couple of hours. Because no one, other
than staff, change her necessary absorbent underwear, we don't know what
condition she is in 'down there'.
She has right side paralysis and can not talk to tell us what is wrong.

You need to visit the place when no one is expecting you. You may find
that things have gone out of kilter with regard to the 'care' you are
paying for. A lot depends on who is on shift. Some staff are more
careful than others and stick to routine, doing what should be done,
others are a hazard.
$3700 is a huge amount of money. Here in Canada it is $1500 a month
which is covered by her Canada Pension Plan (which she paid into) and
Old Age Security.
She now has a private room in a care center in her home town. Over the
past 4 years she has been put in out-of-town care centers where family
had to travel to other towns to visit her, also in an isolated room at
the end of a long corridor where she could see and hear very little.
Things are never easy, but I do think his wife's presence keeps them on
their toes, hard as it must be for her. On the other hand, as long as
she is there to take care of him the staff will be only too glad to let
her do so.
A Catch 22!
Whether you are religious or not, it helps me to say God Bless you!
Lorna

[John Curtiss]

Post by hlmw

Post by John Curtiss
PS -- I forgot to ask one more important thing....
From day one, the nursing home has been trying to get his wife to not visit
him so much so he will "get used to the place." I understand this kind of
thinking if it were a youngster going to camp. But with someone in this
advanced stage of dementia, I would have thought that they would be
encouraging family to visit. What's the experience of other folks? (By the
way, his doctor was surprised to hear that about the place.)
All this probably sounds like it's a dungeon, but the home is actually VERY
nice and ALL the staff are competent, pleasant and caring. That's not the
problem - the question is should the family turn them loose and give carte
blanche with everything or keep coming daily or so?
Thanks.
JC

Post by John Curtiss
A relative just moved to a nursing home that specializing in alzheimers
patients. He is still aware and alert in the mornings but has

increasingly

Post by John Curtiss
worse dementia as the day goes on.
He moved in a month ago. His wife has been visiting every day and stays

2-6

Post by John Curtiss
hours a day, depending on his condition, mostly to help him with personal
chores that we think the staff should be doing. Such as dressing him,
changing his depens, finding his dentures, getting HIS clothes that were
mistakenly giving to other patients (yes, they are labeled but they are
always giving him someone else's clothes), taking him on walks around the
building for exercise, brushing his teeth (the staff doesn't do it well
enough).
They also are supposed be giving him his medicine at certain times and are
not hitting it close enough. For example, he is supposed to take one
medicine 1/2 hour before dinner. Dinner is at 4:30, but they have been
giving it to him at 4:30 -- even after several reminders that he needs it

at

Post by John Curtiss
4pm.
None of these things, with the exception of medicine timing, is super
serious, but when you add them all together, it is giving his wife a full
time job doing what we think the staff should be doing.
Cost of his staying here is $3700/month (not including medicine, depens,
persona items.) Are we getting ripped off or are these things to be
expected?
JC

Don't know about this place, but with a relative in a similar situation,
if we stop attending, she goes without her dentures, never gets her
glasses put on and lies in bed for most of the day instead of being got
up and put in a wheel chair for a couple of hours. Because no one, other
than staff, change her necessary absorbent underwear, we don't know what
condition she is in 'down there'.
She has right side paralysis and can not talk to tell us what is wrong.
You need to visit the place when no one is expecting you. You may find
that things have gone out of kilter with regard to the 'care' you are
paying for. A lot depends on who is on shift. Some staff are more
careful than others and stick to routine, doing what should be done,
others are a hazard.
$3700 is a huge amount of money. Here in Canada it is $1500 a month
which is covered by her Canada Pension Plan (which she paid into) and
Old Age Security.
She now has a private room in a care center in her home town. Over the
past 4 years she has been put in out-of-town care centers where family
had to travel to other towns to visit her, also in an isolated room at
the end of a long corridor where she could see and hear very little.
Things are never easy, but I do think his wife's presence keeps them on
their toes, hard as it must be for her. On the other hand, as long as
she is there to take care of him the staff will be only too glad to let
her do so.
A Catch 22!
Whether you are religious or not, it helps me to say God Bless you!
Lorna

Thanks for writing, Lorna. Your comments are very reassuring!

[Golden State Poppy]

In any institution, no matter how well run, things slip through the
cracks. I think it is most important that a relative visit daily to
see that everything goes OK. I hope this wife will continue her visits
and caring actions. The staff should be changing his depends, but the
wife needs to supervise his clothes. Things get carried away in even
very nice insitutions. The sad thing is for those who don't have
someone advocating for them.

[Fred]

Thanks, I'll pass the good info along. She'll be glad to hear it. The home
manager is saying that she needs to keep visits to once a week or so.

Post by Golden State Poppy
In any institution, no matter how well run, things slip through the
cracks. I think it is most important that a relative visit daily to
see that everything goes OK. I hope this wife will continue her visits
and caring actions. The staff should be changing his depends, but the
wife needs to supervise his clothes. Things get carried away in even
very nice insitutions. The sad thing is for those who don't have
someone advocating for them.

[Cathy F.]

Post by John Curtiss
A relative just moved to a nursing home that specializing in alzheimers
patients. He is still aware and alert in the mornings but has
increasingly
worse dementia as the day goes on.
He moved in a month ago. His wife has been visiting every day and stays 2-6
hours a day, depending on his condition, mostly to help him with personal
chores that we think the staff should be doing. Such as dressing him,
changing his depens, finding his dentures, getting HIS clothes that were
mistakenly giving to other patients (yes, they are labeled but they are
always giving him someone else's clothes), taking him on walks around the
building for exercise, brushing his teeth (the staff doesn't do it well
enough).
They also are supposed be giving him his medicine at certain times and are
not hitting it close enough. For example, he is supposed to take one
medicine 1/2 hour before dinner. Dinner is at 4:30, but they have been
giving it to him at 4:30 -- even after several reminders that he needs it at
4pm.
None of these things, with the exception of medicine timing, is super
serious, but when you add them all together, it is giving his wife a full
time job doing what we think the staff should be doing.
Cost of his staying here is $3700/month (not including medicine, depens,
persona items.) Are we getting ripped off or are these things to be
expected?
JC

I haver very limited experience with the quality of care given in nursing
homes, but from what little I've seen...

My father's been in a nursing home for the last couple of months. My mother
visits him every day - in the mid-late morning through lunchtime, and then
in the late afternoon through dinner/suppertime. No one, AFAIK, has asked
her to not show up as often.

One morning she discovered that no one had shaved him & that his bed had not
been made by the time she arrived; she was *not* happy. Dad wasn't put out
about it, but she was. I think this was the first/only time she was less
than thrilled over the care given. At first he was not wearing his hearing
aid, because she was afraid he'd misplace it (quite likely, actually!), but
he does wear his dentures, & is now wearing his hearing aid. AFAIK the
staff dresses him each day before she gets there, & tends to his personal
grooming, etc. My mother's elected to do his laundry, but it'd seem to me
that if clothes are clearly labeled, they should be getting back to the
correct person!

BTW, his costs are approx. double your relative's!

Cathy

[John Curtiss]

Post by Cathy F.

Post by John Curtiss
A relative just moved to a nursing home that specializing in alzheimers
patients. He is still aware and alert in the mornings but has increasingly
worse dementia as the day goes on.
He moved in a month ago. His wife has been visiting every day and stays 2-6
hours a day, depending on his condition, mostly to help him with personal
chores that we think the staff should be doing. Such as dressing him,
changing his depens, finding his dentures, getting HIS clothes that were
mistakenly giving to other patients (yes, they are labeled but they are
always giving him someone else's clothes), taking him on walks around the
building for exercise, brushing his teeth (the staff doesn't do it well
enough).
They also are supposed be giving him his medicine at certain times and are
not hitting it close enough. For example, he is supposed to take one
medicine 1/2 hour before dinner. Dinner is at 4:30, but they have been
giving it to him at 4:30 -- even after several reminders that he needs

it

Post by Cathy F.

Post by John Curtiss
at
4pm.
None of these things, with the exception of medicine timing, is super
serious, but when you add them all together, it is giving his wife a full
time job doing what we think the staff should be doing.
Cost of his staying here is $3700/month (not including medicine, depens,
persona items.) Are we getting ripped off or are these things to be
expected?
JC

I haver very limited experience with the quality of care given in nursing
homes, but from what little I've seen...
My father's been in a nursing home for the last couple of months. My mother
visits him every day - in the mid-late morning through lunchtime, and then
in the late afternoon through dinner/suppertime. No one, AFAIK, has asked
her to not show up as often.
One morning she discovered that no one had shaved him & that his bed had not
been made by the time she arrived; she was *not* happy. Dad wasn't put out
about it, but she was. I think this was the first/only time she was less
than thrilled over the care given. At first he was not wearing his hearing
aid, because she was afraid he'd misplace it (quite likely, actually!), but
he does wear his dentures, & is now wearing his hearing aid. AFAIK the
staff dresses him each day before she gets there, & tends to his personal
grooming, etc. My mother's elected to do his laundry, but it'd seem to me
that if clothes are clearly labeled, they should be getting back to the
correct person!
BTW, his costs are approx. double your relative's!
Cathy

Thanks, Cathy. Sounds like we have similar situations. Any idea on the
staff to resident ratio there? Our situation is 2 low level staff for 12
residents plus a med nurse who comes in only to give meds. No other medical
care being given here and we have to provide meds and anything other
consumables, like depens, etc. Otherwise it's the kind of place I would be
happy to live in - bright and clean, etc.

If your father doesn't require much care, it wouldn't hurt to check around.
That does sound high to me unless there are other services involved. What I
did was to call the county adult day care facilities and several preachers.
They all seem gave good referrals - up and down the price scale.

John

[Cathy F.]

Post by John Curtiss

Post by Cathy F.

Post by John Curtiss
A relative just moved to a nursing home that specializing in alzheimers
patients. He is still aware and alert in the mornings but has increasingly
worse dementia as the day goes on.
He moved in a month ago. His wife has been visiting every day and stays 2-6
hours a day, depending on his condition, mostly to help him with

personal

Post by Cathy F.

Post by John Curtiss
chores that we think the staff should be doing. Such as dressing him,
changing his depens, finding his dentures, getting HIS clothes that were
mistakenly giving to other patients (yes, they are labeled but they are
always giving him someone else's clothes), taking him on walks around

the

Post by Cathy F.

Post by John Curtiss
building for exercise, brushing his teeth (the staff doesn't do it well
enough).
They also are supposed be giving him his medicine at certain times and

are

Post by Cathy F.

Post by John Curtiss
not hitting it close enough. For example, he is supposed to take one
medicine 1/2 hour before dinner. Dinner is at 4:30, but they have been
giving it to him at 4:30 -- even after several reminders that he needs

it

Post by Cathy F.

Post by John Curtiss
at
4pm.
None of these things, with the exception of medicine timing, is super
serious, but when you add them all together, it is giving his wife a

full

Post by Cathy F.

Post by John Curtiss
time job doing what we think the staff should be doing.
Cost of his staying here is $3700/month (not including medicine, depens,
persona items.) Are we getting ripped off or are these things to be
expected?
JC

I haver very limited experience with the quality of care given in nursing
homes, but from what little I've seen...
My father's been in a nursing home for the last couple of months. My

mother

Post by Cathy F.
visits him every day - in the mid-late morning through lunchtime, and then
in the late afternoon through dinner/suppertime. No one, AFAIK, has asked
her to not show up as often.
One morning she discovered that no one had shaved him & that his bed had

not

Post by Cathy F.
been made by the time she arrived; she was *not* happy. Dad wasn't put

out

Post by Cathy F.
about it, but she was. I think this was the first/only time she was less
than thrilled over the care given. At first he was not wearing his

hearing

Post by Cathy F.
aid, because she was afraid he'd misplace it (quite likely, actually!),

but

Post by Cathy F.
he does wear his dentures, & is now wearing his hearing aid. AFAIK the
staff dresses him each day before she gets there, & tends to his personal
grooming, etc. My mother's elected to do his laundry, but it'd seem to me
that if clothes are clearly labeled, they should be getting back to the
correct person!
BTW, his costs are approx. double your relative's!
Cathy

Thanks, Cathy. Sounds like we have similar situations. Any idea on the
staff to resident ratio there?

No, I don't know. My mother might, but I don't - & I live a couple of
hours away.

Our situation is 2 low level staff for 12

Post by John Curtiss
residents plus a med nurse who comes in only to give meds. No other medical
care being given here

From what my mother's said there is an RN always on duty & a doctor who's on
call.

and we have to provide meds and anything other

Post by John Curtiss
consumables, like depens, etc. Otherwise it's the kind of place I would be
happy to live in - bright and clean, etc.
If your father doesn't require much care, it wouldn't hurt to check around.

My mother already did that, & is on the process of more checking re: adult
homes (Vs. skilled nursing facilities), because my father's now doing
considerably better than was initially expected. They were both already
very familiar w/ this particular facility - it's super-local for them &
they'd been there visiting others many times in the past - & liked it, as
far as nursing homes go (IOW, no one really *wants* to be in a nursing home,
even if it's nice & well-run).

Post by John Curtiss
That does sound high to me unless there are other services involved.

I know he gets PT every day, but I don't know all of what else may be
involved. When I checked prices - averages (maybe just for NYS?, don't
remember now...) - this figure, though awfully high IMO, was in the
ballpark.

Cathy

What I

Post by John Curtiss
did was to call the county adult day care facilities and several preachers.
They all seem gave good referrals - up and down the price scale.
John